I agree with what you're saying Orbit, and thanks for the compliments, but I gotta say Pandora was quite successful even before I joined the team - albeit a lot has improved in the past year, I have to offer credit to the previous developers who laid the foundations and to Konstantine for having the "get-it-done" attitude, which without, Pandora may not have been so successful.

I don't really have a say in how the server is run, but that is more by my own choice - Konstantine handles all marketing and ultimately what content goes into the shard, while I offer advice on best practice and ways to implement features. All content is as-is and had a purpose and reason, we try to trim the fat wherever possible - Having hundreds of boats floating around in the oceans isn't very appealing when you're already hauling 7 million items

If it wasn't for Pandora and Konstantine, VNc would be developing a lot slower than it is - I know it's been a while since my last update, but the aim is to get a solid, full-featured 1.0 version out and then begin branching features that are under construction.

IMHO, which people may disagree with, is that Konstantine has earned at least some bragging rights in the past 3 years of running Pandora.
The shard is like his child, he will abruptly defend it at every turn and boast about it like any proud parent or shard owner would, given the chance.
I say let him have his cake and eat it, it doesn't harm anyone, it only seems to offend those that don't like it when others are successful.

We all like to boast/brag at times, and there are limits, but those limits are different based on the perception of the individual.
Sometimes I think Konstantine may have been too abrupt, or too harsh or even over the top at one time or another, but that's how he rolls and I just deal with it.

Admittedly my own customer service skills were terrible a few months back, I had a bit of problem with making assumptions and being condescending, Orbit can back me up on that because he gave me a reality-check - thanks

2 years me. 1 year Vorspire. -- Pandora isn't even the main focus. And I don't think Vorspire would work with me if I didn't know what I was doing, and same applies for me working with him.

Who is Orbit Storm anyways? I am assuming an Orbsydia (how u spell it?) guy. Is Orbsydia still around?

Oh, I'm not here to argue over what Pandora doesn't have, I only pointed out that Imp/Pittman was right in the sense that Pandora has made some questionable claims to SA/HS "firsts", etc. But it's all semantic and irrelevant to myself and most people. While Pandora clearly existed prior to you jumping into the fray Vorspire, it never truly took off until you started developing there. (I just so happened to be there for Pandora's initial BETA test as a new-hire, during January of 2010 -- I needn't say more.)

I won't even bother to respond to the coy response above; pretending as though Orbsydia, or myself, are somehow unknown when both myself and the Orb community have been around far longer than the likes of Pandora.

All of that being said, I'm neither condemning nor advocating Pandora's marketing. How the owner chooses to advertise his server is his own prerogative. I merely chuckle at the notion of Pandora being "first" or "only" in SA/HS. I haven't anything else to add to this thread as I feel everything that needed said (and then some) has been contributed; I don't wish to be caught in the middle of some petty flame war. Let's hope this thread has run its course and the OP can move along.

Best of luck with VNc, Vorspire. Looking forward to the next commit.

Actually Pandora was in it's peak, as far as player count, 10 months before Vorspire during the "wont say his name" era --- having a lot of players doesn't make me happy. We have always had a good amount of players, it's because I know what I am doing. -- Players recognize it. That is one thing I am not insecure about, which so many of you seem to be. Maybe that's our difference? I dunno.

The quality of work has improved a lot since Vorspire, I mean the guy is awesome, we like quality over quantity. So do not pre-tend you know what's going on. -- Vorspire hasn't touched a thing on Stygian Abyss. You know why? Cause it was already done lol. Like it feels funny to even type Stygian Abyss to be honest haha. So long. -- Pandora has, and I don't mean this condescending, has ALWAYS been ahead of the curve. -- And since Vorspire has been on, it's about creating new things for VnC and pushing that project forward while injecting shards with awesome stuff, never seen before... and cause he's a nice guy, he lets you guys leech off him. He's a pro, you should, I don't blame ya. But don't think for a second the stuff your leeching and playing with, I didn't have anything to do with. We work as a team. We inspire each other constantly, always pushing each other for a bit better.

Let's go back to 1999? .... Countless Orbs post back in the day, go like this...

"Well Pandora has this..."

"Pandora has it, so it's possible.."

And it was an honest question about if Orbs was still around, I really don't know if Orb is still around. Like that one, was serious. I never hear anything about them. Why would I? But just by doing a Google search seems you guys are still active. Gold star. Not in my radar.

I do apologize that I wouldn't join your guys community -- I started Pandora never coding anything in my life, I hired a few guys, used common sense and massive trial and error, mixed with passion and persistence and had done in 2 months what your whole community did in 2 years. -- That's a fact. -- I won't drag others into this from Orb, but offering money, pleading for scripts etc that if they would spend more than 6 hours on 1 thing or not be waiting around for someone to post something for someone else to take, I might have considered it.


That was the issue in my 20 hours at Orb. Everyone talks, few actually did anything. But everyone took.


I know you want to think different, and maybe tricked yourself into thinking different. But I am sorry, Pandora was by far the first working full Stygian Abyss. By such a long shot, that it's almost a joke having to remind you. - Gargoyle's FULLY working, Ter Mur FULLY spawned OSI accurate, FULL OSI Complete Imbuing (The $$ offers really came in then) and all the quests we wanted. At that time, I wanted to see if we could focus on other areas, so we saw where everyone's "SA" projects were at. -- Welp Orbs has Gargoyles still lagging when they fly & totally un-usable, on top of a million other things that were simply broke. From animations to Imbuing.. Oh wait I am sorry, I do think you guys had the Imbuing Item resources scripted. You know the kind of scripts that you do when you are learning how to code?

I admire you guys trying to do what you did. I do, it's pretty cute. But the reality is, you guys release a junk SvN claiming it's SA (I know it was under construction, open source kind of thing, but to a kid just wanting to start a shard he thinks he's got a full SA shard cause he doesn't read anything else, not blaming you guys for their actions, just facts) -- That is about 92% of the people's mindsets when wanting to start a shard --- So what happened? A bunch of shards start popping up, saying they are SA cause they are using your guys SvN when you can't really even play as a Gargoyle cause you can't EVEN FLY RIGHT. I. -- So really what you guys accomplished is putting 20+ (yes I can name each one) shards out there that do not have the quality that legit player's deserve. So yeah, let's whine about Pandora actually having the stuff & saying it.

So you wanna say something about us not being the first in anything? You really wanna say that? Because you look like a fool. -- We have been the exact same Stygian Abyss for 26 months. that's over 2 years if your math is weak. -- But we have had at least fully working & playable Gargoyles for 3 years ---- So you can say that I say this and that for marketing? What's worst... Saying you have complete Stygian Abyss but really don't cause there is 1 quest missing that you thought wouldn't work for your shard to you didn't put it in.

OR

Release a junk SvN so all these trolls can try and start new shards right out of the box & claim they are all SA. ha.

See the big picture? You prbly don't -- But I do. That's why I am where I am.


Yes we're talking about the past, it's always hard to remember the facts and what's true when you been part of a community who so desperately really did nothing. Read RunUO.. Posts go like this.. "Well the people at Orb are WORKING ON IT." -- Of course you are. A full team of people trying to make things happen, and little ol' me did. -- And I am not saying there isn't talented people over there, not by a long shot. But I am saying you got caught in a community hole -- Where everyone else would always think someone else was doing it, but really no one ever did it. Happens.

And it doesn't surprise me you were there for "BETA" testing. -- Everyone at Orbs tried anything they could to get a piece of me. I take it as a compliment. Thanks. But this makes much more sense now, you prbly were let go just because you were simply not up to par. -- It's nothing personal, but I can see now how good our teams instincts are. I really wish I remembered you, sorry I do not.


I am done giving you promotion by responding to your posts. Take your 15 minutes of attention you have gotten from us & go do something fresh and innovative. -- Maybe make a post about it and a bunch of people can tell you how good of an idea it is, then wait until everyone starts posting scripts. A lot usually gets done like that.

Cheers & good luck

- King